Art De La Guerre

simontimothy0 · Javelinier Inscrit le: 29 Juil 2015 Messages: 10

Thanks for your response. I don't feel that we will entirely agree on this issue regarding infantry 'engaging' mounted.

I don't necessarily disagree with the principles underlying your examples and arguments but I think we are more dealing with variations in the differing shades of grey rather than absolute black and white.

Infantry would certainly close-up and hold formation in the face of enemy mounted but not necessarily permanently nor absolutely. Impetuous mounted charges could certainly be triggered by infantry advancing (e.g. Bannockburn) and if mounted advanced close to infantry in formation and then 'stopped', this would probably be a prelude to 'falling back' anyway NOt just a permanent stand-off.

I will not be changing my opinions anytime soon but thanks for taking the time to respond to my queries. I do appreciate it.
Thanks

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1669

lionelrus · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4803 Localisation: paris

simontimothy0 · Javelinier Inscrit le: 29 Juil 2015 Messages: 10

Final thoughts:

Hoplites and Cataphracts are an anachronistic match anyway so let's not get too tied up with 'simulating realism'.

For instance, what are the tabletop game and mechanics actually representing anyway? Is a tabletop charge an actual charge OR is it simply a move up to 'engage' the enemy? (e.g. Did Persian Heavy Cavalry actually charge into contact against the Hoplite spears at Plataea resulting in the death of their commander Masistius (unlikely) so how does the game simulate this situation; a move up that resulted in the cavalry engaging the Greek line (a charge)? and the death of Persian cavalry general?

So in game terms, I would propose that in the game, an infantry 'charge' against mounted actually represents an aggressive move up by infantry to 'engage' the cavalry; not actually physically 'charging' into contact (more likely triggering a cavalry charge against them or forcing the cavalry to withdraw - 'melee outcome').

My point is that having 2 close combat troop types facing each other off in the game because both/either would put themselves at a disadvantage if they 'charged' (took the initiative to engage/force the issue) is basically an undesirable situation in the game.

I could ask when such a stand-off occurred in the ancient world. I can't think of one. Either the cavalry charged, harassed the enemy infantry line with missiles if so equipped or withdrew. I can't think of any examples where it rode up and stopped within charge distance and just sat there.

Rather than messing with Tactical factors then, it may possibly be easier to simply make a cavalry charge on infantry with 1UD compulsory OR it must withdraw.

JohnTheBoring

footslogger · Vétéran Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015 Messages: 166

simontimothy0 · Javelinier Inscrit le: 29 Juil 2015 Messages: 10

I have painted my 25/8mm armies with diligence and I am very happy with the way they look in a display case.

Despite this, I still like to play wargames with them. This normally involves moving them around/across the table.

madaxeman · Post� le: Sam Oct 15, 2016 11:21 pm Sujet du message:

My cataphracts would generally be elite, and with better armour and Furious Charge would definitely be charging any Spearmen they found themselves facing - and would probably seek them out as well.

My other lancers move twice as fast as enemy heavy Spearmen, tend to be deployed on the flanks away from enemy infantry and almost always have many potential attractive targets on table to go and find. If they find themselves having enemy Spearmen at ZOCing ranges, I've messed up and it's my fault.

My Spearmen are cheaper than enemy lancers, and are often accompanied by LF who can shoot, and sometimes some proper bowmen on their flanks. If I can ZOC enemy lancers with my spears, and start racking up some unopposed shooting against them as well I am a happy bunny. Once the lancers pick up a couple of hits I'm going in anyway.
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simontimothy0 · Javelinier Inscrit le: 29 Juil 2015 Messages: 10

My comments derive from a game that I have watched rather than participated in. (I have played ADLG games).

daveallen · Tribun Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 758 Localisation: Rugby & CLWC

Pyrrhus17 · Gladiateur Inscrit le: 14 Sep 2016 Messages: 36

I try and think of things in terms of point cost and time . so if it takes three turns for my spear block to get killed by Cats . Is that a good points investment/ delay in time . So I can attack with my kickass troops somewhere else . Also as above what troops/ unit could the player with the spearman have added with low cost that would have made his situation better.