Art De La Guerre

[PHGamer]

I am thinking about building a Pontic (Mithradaties) army and that is leading me to read up on the rules for Scythed chariots.
I have verified a number of things and wanted to post this list for commentary and correction. Do not take any of this as codex.
Scythed Chariots are impetuous and unmaneuverable. They cannot make 90 and 180 degree turns. They move 4 IU’s and have one cohesion point. They do not get a +1 impact bonus for being impetuous.
Can Scythed Chariots be part of a group? They can only form a group with themselves.
Can Scythed Chariots be interpenetrated or interpenetrate? Yes, normal rules with regard to mounted interpenetrated/interpenetrating LI and LH.
Can Scythed Chariots count as support? Yes
Can Scythed Chariots have support? Yes
When in melee, do Scythed Chariots count support against them? Not on first round of contact.
In melee, Scythed Chariots have a zero basic combat factor but so do their opponents. On this I am not what exactly counts and what does not.
Certainly all the basic factors, like +1 vs all and the impact + is negated by this rule. But do the modifiers count? Like uphill or disordered? I think they count.
Do Scythed Chariots count as units for army breakpoints? No, per page 18.
Do Scythed Chariots count uncontrolled charge if they charge without a command point? I think yes.
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Phil
Japanese telephones work pretty much like ours, except the person on the other end can't understand you.

[PHGamer]

Scythed Chariots are expendable and do not count towards army cohesion as stated on page 18. Thanks to Alex Kara for pointing this out.
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Phil
Japanese telephones work pretty much like ours, except the person on the other end can't understand you.

[daveallen]

Also remember that Scythed Chariots get Furious Charge against infantry.

Dave

[PHGamer]

Most of my questions have been answered, but a few remain.
Do units get abilities, like mounted impact, when facing Scythed Chariots on the first round, or are they all set to zero?
Do modifiers like disorder or up hill take effect, or are they all set to zero?
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Phil
Japanese telephones work pretty much like ours, except the person on the other end can't understand you.

[lionelrus]

the base value of schyted chariot is to lowering ennemies bases figthting factor( execpt lights, LMI, WWG and elephants ) to zero and no support.
Chariots are impetuous without impact but with furious charge. AND THAT'S ALL
This is means:
The lowering factor and cancelling support is only valuable in first melee round.
All terrains effects applies even tophill.
Armor effect applies if mounted opponent. The furious charge cancells foot armour in first round.
Disorder applies, so a disordered apponent has -1 factor, if not light, lmi and so on.
Javelin, 2HW, and all capacities not cancelled by furious charge aplies.
Don't forget the die of expendable cause 1 disorder to all friends units in one UD rear.
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"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

[PHGamer]

So you are saying only Basic factors are set to zero. Abilities (pg16-1 DO count, and Melee Modifiers (page 55). Ok, I can work with that. Thanks!
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Phil
Japanese telephones work pretty much like ours, except the person on the other end can't understand you.

[lionelrus]

[daveallen]

(pg 16-18 )

[footslogger]

[daveallen]

I agree, the more I look at it the messier it gets.

When I've used Scythed Chariots in competition in the UK and Spain (against very experienced opponents) they have gone in at 0:0. No Impact, Armour or Missile Support, but with minuses for disorder, panic and terrain. I'm confident that's the way it should be, but I'd rather it was based on a ruling in black and white than just experience.

So FAQ please.

[Hazelbark]

We will get El Kreator in here to add clarity.

[PHGamer]

In situations like this, I rely on legalese, and very precise wording. So, the wording for Scythed Chariots is ..."has a combat factor of zero"... (lets ignore the exceptions for LI, LMI etc for now)
I do not see a definition for Combat Factor. We have Basic Factor, Abilities, and Modifiers.
It seems obvious that Combat Factor includes Basic Factor, otherwise there is no point here. But does it include Abilities? With no definition this is not clear. It can be inferred that it does because in combat resolution, pages 55-57, it discusses Basic factor, and includes abilities in the third paragraph like Impact, Javelin, or Missile Support as an example. Then moves onto Modifiers. Including Support, Disorder and Uphill.

Based on that, I would have to judge that when facing Scythed Chariots on the turn of contact that Armor, 2HW, Javelins, Missile Support etc would all count as zero. But Terrain, Disorder and Commanders would count.

Of course in some cases this does defy common sense. Missile Support and Javelins should count, as they hit the Scythed Chariots first. And I do not know of a case of Scythed Chariots against elephants, but I suspect a 5 ton animal is not going to care much about the 1 ton horse coming his way.

But, this all is irreverent and conjecture as these rules are translated from French, and the precise definitions will be lost in translation. We will have to go with the original intent. I eagerly await a native French speaker to weigh in on this discussion about Fauché carts.

Not to eagerly, really, those chariots have been painted for 30 years, I still need to paint an army to wrap around them.
[/i]
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Phil
Japanese telephones work pretty much like ours, except the person on the other end can't understand you.

[hcaille]

Hello

Here is a summary of combat factors for a unit attacked by a Scythed chariot in the 1st round:
· Basic factor is set to zero except for LI (+1 if javelin), LH (+1 if javelin), LMI with bow/crossbow (+1 against mounted), LMI with Javelin (+2), WWg (+1) and El (+3 including Impact)
· Impact ability of foot and mounted do not count (except for Elephant)
· Armor applies if mounted (armor of foot troops is cancelled by the furious charge)
· Panic for Elephant and Camels do not apply as Scythed chariots represent suicide troops or already panicked herd
· 2HW ability is not relevant as Scythed chariot have only one cohesion point
· Stakes gives -2 to the Scythed chariot
· Missile support count against Scythed chariot
· If a Scythed chariot do an uncontrolled charge it has -1 in melee
· Disorder and terrain modifiers (including uphill) always applies

I hope it's clear now

Regards
Hervé

[daveallen]

[daveallen]

Also, I'm assuming the same factors apply in the first round to units that frontally attack the Scythed Chariots.

So maybe: