Art De La Guerre

Amra · Post� le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 6:49 am Sujet du message: Two more questions

OK,
Two more out of a recent game

1) The attacker moves to less than 4 UD of an ambush marker . In the defenders turn the command in ambush is unreliable.
Can they just reveal their ambush ( costs no pips ,not prohibited p73) , be within 4UD and now reliable as a command ?

2) LH evade . They move back to their own HC who are on a slight angle. Can they wheel to line up and interpenetrate the HC or must they treat the HC as an obstacle and start to wheel away from them when 1 UD away ?

Thanks all

daveallen · Post� le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 7:26 am Sujet du message:

1) No - see Ambush and Allied Unreliable command below

2) not sure about this one, but on balance I'd say that they could interpenetrate by wheeling. On the basis that if you can wheel to avoid enemy in the path of the evade you should be able to use the same manoeuvre to pass through friends.

Dave

Amra · Post� le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 8:37 am Sujet du message:

Thanks,
1) FFS I must still be drunk from NYE , sorry

2) Troops you can't interpenatrate are an obstacle. Nothing says you can wheel to be able to line up with an obstacle but it feels very fiddly not to & out of keeping with the rules simple approach

daveallen · Post� le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 10:25 am Sujet du message:

lionelrus · Post� le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 11:00 am Sujet du message:

At first the HC cannot be interpenetrated, so it's a obstacle.
After wheeling, the HC can be interpenetrated, so it's not a obstacle anymore.
So th e rule " weeling by the minimum necessary to avoid a obstacle " applies.
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

Commodore · Post� le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 11:29 am Sujet du message:

lionelrus · Post� le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 2:44 pm Sujet du message:

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1669

Amra · Post� le: Mer Jan 04, 2017 12:16 am Sujet du message:

Great , but can anyone point to a rule which allows it ?

The rules are clear about options for obstacles and wheeling towards them isn't one of them

ethan · Signifer Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 354

I believe if you look on p.39 item 6 - Evade move it will clear things up.

Amra · Post� le: Mer Jan 04, 2017 3:40 am Sujet du message:

Hmm not really Very Happy

It says units that can be interpenetrated are not obstacles , but the HC can only be interpenetrated if the LC wheel in a way they are not allowed to do ( p39 , 6-Evade move) Confused

I agree wheeling to go thru seems reasonable , its just we are about to have our National tournament and I want to be able to point to the rule for someone who plays it different

Can I just say Hazelbark says ? Very Happy

ethan · Signifer Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 354

"Friendly units that can be interpenetrated are not considered obstacles"

and "This wheel must be the minimum necessary to avoid the obstacle."

So you wheel to line up and then there is no obstacle. I don't see how this is different than any other wheel to avoid an obstacle...

Amra · Post� le: Mer Jan 04, 2017 3:55 am Sujet du message:

It's probably just a language thing , evades say you must " avoid the obstacles" when within 1 UD not change direction to go thru it .

Meh , it makes more sense for the LC to wheel Ill just use your logic & see how it goes Very Happy

madaxeman · Post� le: Mer Jan 04, 2017 11:56 am Sujet du message:

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1669

Exactly it is VERY important to shed the obtuse dogmas of Barkerese legalisms. Ironically at time Barker would agree with that an believes players made it the problem not him.

Also if you read the p 39 bottom right column. it says if you encounter an obstacle "you maneuver to avoid it". The it explains shifts and wheels so it really is very clear.