Art De La Guerre

Viking709 · Auxiliaire Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2015 Messages: 91

Impetious cavalry charges a Death Stars medium foot support and is now in side edge contact with light infantry in front of elephant. The light infantry and elephant are now both supporting the medium infantry. Another Impetious cavalry now charges the other supporting medium infantry and again the light infantry and elephant are supporting this contact. Now the enemy launches a third attack against with Impetious cavalry against the light infantry which can’t evade because it can not interpenetrate the elephant as it is supporting the medium foot. The light infantry will die at the end of combat. It appears the Impetious cavalry is required to pursue into the elephant
CAV
CAV LI. CAV
MEDELEMED

Could not find anything to prevent this

Viking709 · Auxiliaire Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2015 Messages: 91

Suppose to look like this

......CAV
CAV light CAV
med ele. med

Black Prince · Prétorien Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016 Messages: 299

The Light Foot can and must evade when in support and charged by anything other than LF. Check out the threat "LF fighting as and overlap"

Ramses II · Post� le: Sam D�c 23, 2017 10:53 am Sujet du message:

I think the point you are looking for is on p41, exceptions to uncontrolled charge, sixth bullet.
“If the charge would cause a mounted unit to contact an elephant, even by just a corner”

So, actually none of the charges were required since they would all contact the Elephant, some by just a corner, thus the cavalry were not deemed to be Impetuous against those units. However, this does not prevent you from choosing to charge them if you want to.

Luddite · Archer Inscrit le: 15 Nov 2017 Messages: 52

Another couple of points:

I think the LF is forced to evade (Troops that must evade p38)

I see no reason why they cannot interpenetrate the elephants (Interpenetrations allowed p43)

So in the case above, the impetuous cav would charge the LF, who would be forced to evade, and then the only viable target would be the elephant, so the cav would not have to make contact (unsure whether it moves at all?)

No?
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daveallen · Post� le: Sam D�c 23, 2017 5:30 pm Sujet du message:

Except, as pointed out already, troops in melee or supporting same cannot be interpenetrated. So the LI die where they stand.
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Viking709 · Auxiliaire Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2015 Messages: 91

yes the light infantry can not evade thru a unit in support. So I know the Impetuous cavalry does not have to make an uncontrolled charge into the elephant but this a PURSUIT move and on pg 62 it list four exceptions and none prevent it from pursuing into the elephant which is almost certain death

madaxeman · Post� le: Sam D�c 23, 2017 10:15 pm Sujet du message:

Ramses II · Post� le: Sam D�c 23, 2017 11:22 pm Sujet du message:

Ah, i think I see viking’s point.

Ignoring the melee presented, where the player must expend 3CP to command his cavalry to commit suicide, a tactic worthy of Ambrose Burnside at his best some 1000 to 2000 years later than these rules represent Laughing

If an Impetuous cavalry unit routs the unit it is fighting to its front, it must pursue forwards 1UD, even if it contacts an Elephant unit behind the destroyed enemy that is now brought into melee with the cavalry.

Viking is correct that as far as I am aware, there is nothing in the rules that prevents the Impetuous cavalry pursuit to their own destruction at the hands (trunks and tusks) of the elephants.

madaxeman

Black Prince · Prétorien Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016 Messages: 299

I did not know about the fine print that does not allow you to interpenetrate a friendly unit in support. It does make sense - these rules are full of subtleties which get them good playing feel.

daveallen · Post� le: Mer D�c 27, 2017 12:38 pm Sujet du message:

Just a couple of final notes on this.

There is a way to avoid the pursuit after the destruction of the LI. You aim to hit the LI at an angle such that the front of the middle cav unit is behind one of the other cav units.

Units (except Elephants or Lights) that catch LI in the open are not allowed to conform. (p38 Troops that must evade final sentence)

Secondly, Tim was incorrect to say that the LI could evade because they were contacted corner to corner. Only units or groups that are charged can evade.

As to whether or not this trick is worth the effort. Consider the situation where your HI line faces a line of enemy HI with a skirmish screen of two LI in front. Using Viking's cunning plan you nick four APs for relatively little cost. I'd do it. Twisted Evil

Dave
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Icaunais · Légat Inscrit le: 21 Sep 2012 Messages: 649

The front of the LI is not in contact with the flank or rear of a unit so the LI could evade the cavalry charge.

I don't know how this point is translated in English but in the French rule it's clear.
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Ramses II · Post� le: Jeu D�c 28, 2017 9:25 pm Sujet du message:

Icaunais, that is not quite correct.
As others have explained above, if the rear of the LI is in contact with the front of one of a line of HI units, by charging cavalry into the front of a adjacent HI unit, this makes the unit directly behind the LI a Support, and thus impassable to evaders. So the LI must be destroyed if charged since it may no longer evade.

fdunadan · Tribun Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009 Messages: 984

Only one support unit is autorised on each flank of a melee. So you declare the LI as supporting the fight (and the unitI behind is no longuer a support) and so when your LI is charged, he can evade... and the unit behind act as support for the fight...
simple, elegant, and respecting the spirit of the rule.
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