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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 758
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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 Posté le: Mar Jan 23, 2018 10:44 am Sujet du message: Conforming and terrain |
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Normally I'd do a pretty diagram for this, but today's not your day.
A unit of Medium Spear are half way emerged from a field, in the open behind their flank is an enemy unit of Pike at a distance of 1.9 UD.
When the Pike charge the flank I'm assuming they do not conform fully to the flank because the field would penalise them in melee (Page 52, Conforming 2nd paragraph), but they still count as a flank attack.
Is that right?
Dave
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1669
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 23, 2018 4:26 pm Sujet du message: |
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This is a good one.
Trying to reconcile the no need to conform into terrain with the it is not a valid flank charge.
My first instinct would be to agree with you. And my second instinct would be to agree however the Umpire ruled.
But then....
I Note the following from the official amendments
| Citation: | After initial contact is made, the player continues the movement :
First by sliding the unit or group by up to 1 UD in order to line up corner to corner with the enemy
o In the case of frontal contact, the alignment is made corner to the front corner of the most menacing enemy at the moment of entry into a Zone of Control.
o In the case of contacting a flank the alignment is made front corner to the enemy’s front corner
o In the case of contacting the rear the alignment is made with the front corner to a rear corner of the enemy
Then by pivoting if necessary to make complete contact with the enemy unit
The conformation must be made as far as possible without leaving the table. Entry into terrain that penalises the unit in combat remains optional (see the previous paragraph). |
| Citation: | Page 55
In the sub-section Conforming after a melee, after the final paragraph add the following text
“if a unit is in on the flank of an enemy but cannot conform with the flank in a legal manner it can always fight against the front of the enemy.†|
So I think the intent is, if your pike wants all the flank attack advantages it should choose to conform into terrain. Otherwise it counts and a frontal charge. |
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Zoltan
Légat
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 500
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 23, 2018 11:53 pm Sujet du message: |
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The page 55 section is headed Conforming after a melee and starts out with the context "After a rout or disengage move....". So I don't think the page 55 rules apply to the initial charge into contact and first melee, as no one has routed or disengaged at that point.
The page 52 rules Conforming make it clear that it is optional for the charger ("after initial contact is made...") to conform into the penalising terrain. In the OP example, I think the pike can charge the rear of the medium spear, not conform into penalising terrain, and enjoy full charge benefits. The intent is clearly stated on page 52 that while you must conform, you are not forced to conform into penalising terrain. I can't see any RAW requirement that in order to enjoy full charge benefits you must conform. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1669
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| Posté le: Mer Jan 24, 2018 3:48 pm Sujet du message: |
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p 54. "Unable to conform" 2nd paragraph.
Now I guess you can draw a distinction between "unable" and "not required". I think that is the interesting piece that Dave has posted. |
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plefebvre
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 30 Déc 2009
Messages: 1183
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| Posté le: Mer Jan 24, 2018 5:05 pm Sujet du message: Re: Conforming and terrain |
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| daveallen a écrit: | Normally I'd do a pretty diagram for this, but today's not your day.
A unit of Medium Spear are half way emerged from a field, in the open behind their flank is an enemy unit of Pike at a distance of 1.9 UD.
When the Pike charge the flank I'm assuming they do not conform fully to the flank because the field would penalise them in melee (Page 52, Conforming 2nd paragraph), but they still count as a flank attack.
Is that right?
Dave |
When you attack a unit on the flank or rear , you must conform correctly , otherwise the attack is not allowed.
see page 54
The Technical Board
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patrick lefebvre
"sic transit gloria mundi" |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 758
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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| Posté le: Jeu Jan 25, 2018 12:07 pm Sujet du message: Re: Conforming and terrain |
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| plefebvre a écrit: | When you attack a unit on the flank or rear , you must conform correctly , otherwise the attack is not allowed.
see page 54
The Technical Board |
Thank you Patrick.
This would be the second paragraph of Unable to conform on page 54.
"Must conform correctly" I take to be another way of saying "it is compulsory to conform."
However, in this case the unit is able to conform so should the page 54 rule even apply here?
Furthermore it contradicts the rule quoted above from page 52 which says that a unit can ignore compulsory conformation if doing so would take it into penalising terrain.
The two rules clash.
Maybe the TB needs to make it clear that page 54 is an exception to the rule about not having to conform on page 52.
Dave
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plefebvre
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 30 Déc 2009
Messages: 1183
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| Posté le: Jeu Jan 25, 2018 2:50 pm Sujet du message: |
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Hello Dave
In your example, the Pk is able to fully conform on the ennemy's flank but it will suffer the terrain malus.
I agree the wording of page 54 should be slightly different to be fully consistent with the page 52. Perhaps something like "it must totaly (or fully) conform so it can be considered a valid Attack etc.." would be better. Also it would be better located within the general rule for conformation in page 52.
But to improve all these slight wording difficulties it would be necessary to switch to a 3.1 version of the rule. What Hervé doesn't want for the moment.
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patrick lefebvre
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 758
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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| Posté le: Jeu Jan 25, 2018 8:40 pm Sujet du message: |
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I agree, 3.1 has an ominous sound. 
Your suggested wording is a good enough "interpretation" for me.
Dave
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