Art De La Guerre

[cyranoinlondon]

Page 55 deals with Conforming after a Melee.

The first para suggests that this can be performed by a unit that has routed its opponent and ends in 'front corner against front corner or side by side for example'. The examples on page 55 include (Example 3) a situation where a HI (Blue unit) destroys its frontal opponent leaving it in contact with a Cavalry unit (Red) only on one corner. Based on this I (and most of my club) have played it that the HI blue unit can conform in the melee phase of the Blue player onto the front of the Cavalry immediately after the combat and for free. I've also played it this way in competitions.

However in a recent competition the umpire ruled that this was not the case. He said that a unit can only conform in the melee phase if:-
(a) The unit belongs to the phasing player; and
(b) The unit destroys its frontal opponent; and
(c) The unit is contacted by an opponent on its flank or rear.

He pointed to page 12 of the FAQ under the heading Timing of Conformation and particularly to bullet point 2. That third requirement seemed to me to be at odds with the words in the first para on page 55 but the words in the FAQ were clear.

Thus in his view the conforming moves described in Example 5 can only happen in the subsequent Movement phases of the Red and Blue players (in that order) and not in the melee phase.

So which is correct? If the situation in Example 3 arises can the Blue HI conform in Blue's melee phase immediately after the combat without spending CP and as an alternative to pursuit, or is Example 3 just describing what each player can do in subsequent Movement phases?

Some clarity would be much appreciated.

Regards
Chris

[madaxeman]

Conforming happens in the movement phase of the active player, not (immediately) after combat   The FAQ is - as you say - clear in this. 

The confusion in the wording would be cleared up in the section you mention if it actually had said “as a consequence of combats in previous rounds”. 
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[Nightingale87]

Oh God!...When I finally thought I had it!....now this turns what I thought I knew upside down. I thought conforming was at the end of the combat phase and the units that could/had to conform were the phasing units!....

now isn´t this correct???

[madaxeman]

Conforming when you start off touching enemy but are not in legal contact, and then end up in legal contact is a move. It's a "free" move (usually), and doesn't get charge-related bonuses, but it is still a move.

As such it only happens in the movement phases.
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[cyranoinlondon]

So looking at the 3 pictorial examples on P55 we are saying:-

Example 1 occurs in the Movement phase of the Red player

Example 2 occurs in the Melee phase of the Blue player if the destruction of the Red foot unit occurs in Blue's Melee phase, but if the destruction of the Red unit occurs in Red's Melee phase then the conforming occurs in Blue's subsequent Movement phase.

Example 3 occurs in the subsequent Movement phase irrespective of whether the Red Cavalry unit was destroyed in Blue or Red's Melee phase.

Is that correct?

Regards
C

[Ramses II]

Almost there.

When the infantry to the front is destroyed, it does not matter whose phase it is, the blue infantry is turned to face after the melee. 

[cyranoinlondon]

Ramses - on what basis?

P55 of the rules is quite clear - 'The phasing player is allowed to conform such units' (second para on P55). So if the Blue HI destroys its frontal opponent in Red's melee phase, then Blue is not the phasing player and must wait until its Movement phase to conform.

What's wrong with that logic?

Thanks
C

[Ramses II]

Have another look at the 2nd bullet of Timing of Conformation in the FAQ (p12).  

This particular FAQ on Conformation applies to several different points during the phase from the start of the movement phase through to the pursuit. P55 in the book describes how the Conformation works after a melee, but the sequence effectively spans the end of one player’s turn and the start of the other player’s. 

[cyranoinlondon]

I think this is where I'm having a problem. I thought the FAQ was supposed to be clarifying the rules, not superseding them. Now I know GW does the 'here's a FAQ but it's really a rule-change' routine all the time, but I had imagined that wasn't the case here.

The rules are very clear, only the phasing player can conform in the melee phase, and if he does so the conformation replaces any pursuit move. What you are saying is that who the phasing player doesn't matter because the FAQ doesn't refer to that qualification.

Excuse me if I sound a bit exasperated; it's not you, it's the confusion about how the rules and the FAQ are supposed to interact.

Regards
C

[Ramses II]

And you are not the first. 
The rules are indeed very clear and refreshingly simple but there are a few points like this one that need clarifying. 

Playing games helps a lot as the ‘tricky’ bits become familiar fairly rapidly, especially in conjunction with the FAQ, the official amendments, the examples folder and the forum in general. 

Ideally ‘El Creator’ will work on a new version to rewrite the inconsistencies that have been uncovered, because it is becoming awkward to manage details across three documents with some examples elsewhere.

The French have just announced a change in the Technical Board to allow Patrick Lefebvre to concentrate on the rules, so this may possibly be the start of that process but it will take a very long time so don’t hold your breath.

[Nightingale87]

I do feel the same way as cyranoinlondon...

It´s like...after ten games I thought I knew how to play,...and now im full of doubts again and have to read the FAQs as they are a rule changing document.

Good thing I have you guys!...

[Ramses II]

And for completeness, on the FAQ on Timing of Conformation

• Bullet #1 Occurs when contact is made after movement and is mandatory.
  
• Bullet #2 Occurs after melee and is mandatory (p54).
  This occurs when the enemy unit in front has been destroyed and there is another enemy unit attacking the flank or rear (so the unit must turn to face).
  
• Bullet #3 Occurs after a melee in the phasing player’s turn when the unit pursues and contacts another enemy unit.
  That enemy unit must conform (or be destroyed if LI)
  
• Bullet #4 Occurs at the start of a player’s turn and is optional (p55).
  This is where the unit is already in contact with an enemy unit and could be following a melee, or where a supporting unit has moved forward in a previous turn to be in flank to flank contact with an enemy unit.

Hope that helps clarify things a little more. 

[madaxeman]