Art De La Guerre

Kal5056 · Javelinier Inscrit le: 26 Mar 2017 Messages: 17

A unit with an included general is hit in flank and front by non light units and loses one cohesion. The unit then wins the subsequent combat routing the frontal opponent

Does the unit still check for commander loss since the unit lost cohesion at beginning of combat?

Gino

vexillia · Centurion Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017 Messages: 408 Localisation: Nantwich, UK

fdunadan · Tribun Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009 Messages: 984

As stated page 24, if the unit does lose cohesion during a melee, the general must check for survival. It is not specified that the loss is caused by defeat in combat, so i would say that the general must check since his unit lose some cohesion .
The test is made after the combat resolution (page 24 again)
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Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1669

The actual rules wording is
"If the unit to which he is attached loses cohesion in melee, the opposing player rolls...."

This is NOT a unit that is engaged in melee that loses a cohesion.

Note there is some debate on it. I think its clear. But you can go to about 1-2 pages later in the forum on the topic. It will be addressed in the next FAQ.

Three · Prétorien Inscrit le: 20 D�c 2017 Messages: 204

Zoltan · Post� le: Mar Mai 08, 2018 7:41 pm Sujet du message:

I think some of you are overthinking this.

1. A commander included in a unit (or declared to have joined it) gives the unit a bonus at the time of resolving a melee

2. The flip side of this bonus is that the commander’s life is at risk if his unit loses the melee resolution and incurs cohesion losses as a result of that.

3. Ipso facto, testing for a commander’s loss only occurs at the point where the commander’s melee bonus has been utilised (and found wanting). This is at the point of melee resolution, not before.

plefebvre · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 30 D�c 2009 Messages: 1183

The answer is in the FAQ (page 2) :

Q: If a general (attached or included) is engaged in melee and his unit loses cohesion in melee, he may be eliminated on a roll of 1 to a roll. But only one test is performed even if the unit loses several cohesion points (page 24 and 25). A unit in melee can lose cohesion points at several points during the turn (taken in flank or rear, losing a melee, the rout of a friendly unit) so when should the single test be taken ?
A: This test must be performed when all the possibilities of cohesion loss in melee have passed thus it is taken during the rout and pursuit phase.

The T.B
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patrick lefebvre

"sic transit gloria mundi"

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1669

Thank you. I had overlooked it made the recent FAQ.

Korik · Archer Inscrit le: 19 Juil 2018 Messages: 58

So, just to get it completely straight:

I'm engaged to the front with my general included unit when I get cheap shotted with a flank attack
The flank attach, being by, say, medium cavalry, costs me a cohesion point
Flank attack notwithstanding I win the melee, and therefore don't take another cohesion loss

After the melee phase, because I have taken a cohesion loss, and despite winning the melee, there is still a roll for a commander death

The roll is taken after ALL situations where a cohesion loss could occur have taken place, rather than at my opponents discretion as suggested in http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/adlg/v3/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6369

Just one last thing; if the roll is taken after the rout and pursuit phase does that mean there is also a roll if a general included unit which has not, up to that point, suffered any cohesion loss, suffers a cohesion hit because of friends routing?
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Korik

Zoltan · Post� le: Jeu Ao� 09, 2018 5:09 am Sujet du message:

So it is possible for you to rout me but I still kill your general!
Twisted Evil

Truscott Trotter · Javelinier Inscrit le: 04 D�c 2017 Messages: 12

Ramses II · Post� le: Jeu Ao� 09, 2018 2:06 pm Sujet du message:

Korik · Archer Inscrit le: 19 Juil 2018 Messages: 58

Thanks for confirming that

On another point, which came up in a game yesterday...
In my move I charge my unit of medium cavalry and make front to front contact with an enemy unit of light cavalry
In my melee phase the combat is a draw, no cohesion losses
In my opponent's movement phase he moves a second unit, this one of medium cavalry, into a legal flank contact with my unit which, at that point, is engaged frontally
He then disengages with the light cavalry (moves faster than my medium cavalry so can)

Question is, when is the loss of a cohesion point for a non light flank contact adjudicated? Is it at the point of first contact, when my unit is frontally engaged and so loses the cohesion point, or is it at the start of the melee phase, when it isn't frontally engaged and so doesn't lose a cohesion point?
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Korik

Dickstick · Post� le: Dim Ao� 12, 2018 1:18 pm Sujet du message:

Rules say loss is taken in phase of contact.
So LC hang around until loss given.
Both movements are not simultaneous.
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Ao� 12, 2018 1:39 pm Sujet du message:

Sorry Dickstick, Multiple Opponents 2nd para P59 states
" When a unit, already engaged in melee with an enemy on its front edge, is engaged in melee by a new enemy (other than light troops) on its flank or rear edge, it immediately loses one cohesion point, except if it is WWG."

So the Cohesion loss is applied when the MC hit the flank, allowing the LC to disengage later in the movement phase before the melee phase (5th para).
This means that the enemy unit goes into the melee phase with the additional cohesion loss already applied. Potentially this could be the last cohesion point, in which case there is no melee as such, the enemy unit is removed at the end of the melee phase, not before (Specific cases 1st bullet).