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Mike Bennett
Légat
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017 Messages: 583
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 3:12 pm Sujet du message: Light horse shooting target priorities |
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Hi guys
As you can see I have made the mistake of reading and thinking about the rules.
I have always played that light horse shoot at the enemy closest to any edge since there arc of fire is all around. I am now pretty sure that is wrong. I notice page 9 that the nearest enemy is defined as that closest to your front edge. from page 46 priority it is the otherwise bullet but closest enemy, now cleatly measured to front edge, not to any edge or shooting edge
Views? |
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014 Messages: 747
Localisation: Scotland
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 4:15 pm Sujet du message: |
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P46 Target Priority, special cases, 2nd bullet. Citation: | As light cavalry/camelry shoot with an arc of 360, they always choose the nearest target. |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum

Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1599
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 5:46 pm Sujet du message: |
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AlanCutner a écrit: | P46 Target Priority, special cases, 2nd bullet. Citation: | As light cavalry/camelry shoot with an arc of 360, they always choose the nearest target. |
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Yep. "nearest target" in this context is pretty clear IMO that this is not related to any definition involving front edge _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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Mike Bennett
Légat
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017 Messages: 583
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 6:36 pm Sujet du message: |
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Did you consider page 9. Nearest enemy is that located nearest to any point of the FRONT EDGE
Or course nearest enemy and nearest target are not the same words, so may also have different meanings |
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Zoltan
Légat
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 500
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 6:57 pm Sujet du message: |
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So where you have a 2x2 block of LC facing one direction, in reality can all 4 units shoot collectively based on any of the block’s 4 edges, as long as the target is within 2UD of at least 1 of the bases forming part of that edge?
i.e. the block can shoot all around; 360 degrees.
In other words, for LC every base edge counts as a front edge for shooting purposes? |
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014 Messages: 747
Localisation: Scotland
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 7:02 pm Sujet du message: |
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Citation: | Did you consider page 9. Nearest enemy is that located nearest to any point of the FRONT EDGE
Or course nearest enemy and nearest target are not the same words, so may also have different meanings |
If you only consider the actual front edge then p46 would have no meaning. So you have to think of the front edge for shooting purposes, which for LC is every edge. |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4803
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 7:56 pm Sujet du message: |
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LH always shoot on closerwithout considering P9. Lh is an exception to usual target priority. _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum

Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1599
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 8:04 pm Sujet du message: |
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Mike Bennett a écrit: | nearest enemy and nearest target are not the same words, so may also have different meanings |
I think you may have just absolutely nailed it.
It's like we're in a whole new cool and crazy post-Barker world where the very idea that "different words have different meanings" isn't just a cart-load of heretical weird voodoo sh-t  _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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Zoltan
Légat
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 500
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 8:32 pm Sujet du message: |
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So in practice what is the application of the p9 definition of nearest unit?
For example, I have a LF unit within 1UD of your LC unit’s rear edge. I also have a LF unit 2UD from your unit’s front edge. You are free to charge or shoot at either of my LF units. What is the practical application of the “nearest unit†rule? |
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barnstormer
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 27 Aoû 2018 Messages: 15
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 9:07 pm Sujet du message: |
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Zoltan a écrit: | So where you have a 2x2 block of LC facing one direction, in reality can all 4 units shoot collectively based on any of the block’s 4 edges, as long as the target is within 2UD of at least 1 of the bases forming part of that edge?
i.e. the block can shoot all around; 360 degrees.
In other words, for LC every base edge counts as a front edge for shooting purposes? |
My understanding of overhead shooting is that it only applies to the front. The back unit is corner to corner contact to the back edge and the range is measured from the front edge. |
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barnstormer
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 27 Aoû 2018 Messages: 15
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 9:23 pm Sujet du message: |
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Zoltan a écrit: | So in practice what is the application of the p9 definition of nearest unit?
For example, I have a LF unit within 1UD of your LC unit’s rear edge. I also have a LF unit 2UD from your unit’s front edge. You are free to charge or shoot at either of my LF units. What is the practical application of the “nearest unit†rule? |
The FAQ states that "LC shoot at the enemy that is closest in its area of firing" I don't know why this would cause any confusion.
Shooting and charging are two different things. In your example you would have to charge the rear unit if the LC is in its ZOC (it exerts one because the LC is a light troop as well) otherwise it can choose. The rear unit is the closest within its area of firing so is the shooting target. |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum

Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1599
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 11:10 pm Sujet du message: |
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Zoltan a écrit: | So in practice what is the application of the p9 definition of nearest unit?
For example, I have a LF unit within 1UD of your LC unit’s rear edge. I also have a LF unit 2UD from your unit’s front edge. You are free to charge or shoot at either of my LF units. What is the practical application of the “nearest unit†rule? |
The application is presumably that “nearest unit†defined on p9 is a defined phrase, in italics, with specific wording and a specific meaning, as set out on p9
Wherever the rules say “nearest unit†the definition of “nearest unit†set out on p9 applies
The phrase “nearest unit†doesn’t appear in the shooting & target selection section of the rules. So the definition on p9 doesn’t apply in shooting.Â
I’m struggling to see how this could be any clearer tbh?
[/i] _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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Mike Bennett
Légat
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017 Messages: 583
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 12:31 am Sujet du message: |
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Different words, different meaning. Thanks for those who pointed out the different words. So it now seems to me with the benefit from other people’s understanding that for example
Nearest target seems relevant to shooting
Nearest enemy is relevant when called for in rules in those words, so for example; ZOC charge priorities, uncontrolled advance .... |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum

Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1237
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 12:53 am Sujet du message: |
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All, see the FAQ P12 for a clear statement and diagram on LH shooting from a single base. Measurements are taken from the nearest edge to the target.Â
Overhead shooting from a second unit is less clear. The wording on p49 indicates that the distance to the target is measured “from the front edgeâ€, which is at odds with the notion of shooting ‘360 degrees’. It also refers to the “front unitâ€, which needs clarification where the target is to the rear or flank of the LH units.Â
I will check with the TB |
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Zoltan
Légat
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 500
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 7:46 am Sujet du message: |
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Thanks Mike and Ramses for the helpful replies.
😏 |
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