Art De La Guerre

[SteveR]

This situation came up in a game this week.

I charged a line of impetuous sword into some medium swordsmen.

Because of friendly troops already in combat I could not completely conform. No problem - we just fought as if conformed.

Like this - numbers are facing down and are medium sword impetuous, letters are facing up. Each unit is represented by two characters. The X is the obstacle so 11 cannot completely line up with AA

X112233
AABBCC

As a result of the combat 22 was destroyed. A 6-1 will do that for you. The other melees continue into the next turn.

So AABBCC are shifted one character to the right as a conformation and everyone is nice and lined up. BB has no opponent.

My opponent then wanted to expend one CP to advance BB slightly in order to be able to make a flank attack if the melee persisted until his next turn.

Normally a move following a conformation would not be allowed however we felt that the spirt of the rules, fight as if conformed, should allow an advance like this following conformation.

What do you think?

[Za Otlichiye]

[SteveR]

It is not explicit but I can give an example that shows it.

Page 44 the "Continuing a charge" example graphic

C3 and C4 continue straight forward along their regular line rather than conforming with their group and then continuing. The text says if they choose to remain in a group conform then they may not continue.

If B2 and B3 were not there then this would result in no combat where a conformation followed by movement would allow for it.

Are you disagreeing with my conclusion that in the case I ask about that a move should be allowed?

The other example of the question I can come up with is a unit contacted on the flank survives the initial round of melee. It turns to conform. May it then conduct a subsequent disengage move in this same turn provided all other conditions for disengaging are met? I would think so.

[lionelrus]

BB had moved to conform, so he's not allwed to move, as not being light troops.
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

[Za Otlichiye]

I don't see any, explicit or otherwise, prohibition on Conforming then Moving So I think either scenario is okay.
The situation on page 44 is different. It's about remaining as a group. It wouldn't make any difference unless you are attempting to stretch a slide more than 1 UD.

[Longtooth]

The third bullet point at the top-left corner of Page 53 says that "a friendly unit that has been shifted cannot then move or rally in the rest of the movement phase". This suggests that BB could not move forward.

Has I been in Steve R's shoes, I would probably have let unit BB move forward, as this seems like the friendly thing to do.

Jesse

[Za Otlichiye]

Thank you, Jesse, that certainly helps.
It looks to me that Conforming units in melee applies [this is incorrect. "In melee" refers to main units and units in melee support, but not those in simple support. The appropriate section would be Conformance to give support. ZO] and Conformation and shifting units does not, as unit B is in melee already. A unit which is not in melee can always move first and avoid shifting (except as constrained by ZoC's etc.), while a unit in melee can at best Disengage.

If the obstacle X was not in place, then the numbered units would align with the lettered units and unit B would be free to advance in the next turn after unit 2's rout. But since X is there, conformance - which seems to me just housekeeping, not simulation - is delayed till the following turn. So, it seems fair that unit B could advance without further wait.

[Zoltan]

Conformation and shifting units does apply

1. In its turn AA has an obligation to conform (as does CC) - p.50 Timing of conformation bullet 4.

2. In order for AA to conform BB must be shifted - p.52 Conformation and shifting units (BB is not "engaged in melee"; it is now in simple support for AA and CC which are both engaged in melee, having routed its opponent 22 in the previous, enemy, turn).

3. Because BB has been shifted it is not permitted to move - p.53 Additional points bullet 3.

It's a very simple game; there's really no need to keep trying to event "gotchas" or fretting about perceived problems. SteveR called it right on the night and hopefully had a fun game with his mate.

[lionelrus]

[Za Otlichiye]

I must concede the first bullet on page 53 talks about shifting a unit in support position, so being in support does not prevent it from being shifted.
However, it has its own reasons to conform as it is in partial conformance and is giving support. Conform unit C to unit 3. Now unit B, which was supporting unit C, can conform to unit 3 to continue to give support to unit C. Now conform unit A without shifting unit B. Voila.

It's a simple game. You shouldn't use an overly restrictive reading of the text to screw unit B out of the advantage it gained on the 6-1.

BTW I took a look what would happen to Pursuit if B were routed instead of 2. Looks like you can't pursue, but doesn't look like the situation was considered.

[Zoltan]

Conforming is one of the Special Movements. When BB conforms (as it must) it has moved. Ipso facto it can't move again by advancing into the gap left by 22's demise. SteveR called it right!

I've only ever seen this situation arise once - in SteveR's post here.

[Za Otlichiye]