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What terrain is an obstacle to evading units?
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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MC_Delicatessen
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Inscrit le: 30 Juil 2020
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MessagePosté le: Dim Aoû 22, 2021 12:10 pm    Sujet du message: What terrain is an obstacle to evading units? Répondre en citant
From p48 obstacles to evading include:
Friendly units that cannot be interpenetrated
Enemy units
Impassable terrain


Does impassable include a flooded river?
Does impassable include a coast?
Is other rough or difficult terrain an obstacle to evading units?
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Ramses II
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
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Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Dim Aoû 22, 2021 6:40 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
It includes all terrain that the unit may not go through, rather than those that are difficult or rough, so yes it does include those mentioned.
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Mike Bennett
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Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
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MessagePosté le: Dim Aoû 22, 2021 8:45 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:
It includes all terrain that the unit may not go through, rather than those that are difficult or rough, so yes it does include those mentioned.


Except the rough and difficult ones mentioned in the last sentence surely
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daveallen
Tribun


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MessagePosté le: Lun Aoû 23, 2021 7:18 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mike Bennett a écrit:
Except the rough and difficult ones mentioned in the last sentence surely

Page 48, Second case: Evade blocked by an obstacle, 2nd bullet point says evading units can't slide to avoid rough or difficult terrain within 1UD, they must enter the terrain.

So not an obstacle as such, but included in a rule about obstacles ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dave
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marco baroni
Barbare


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MessagePosté le: Dim Aoû 29, 2021 9:04 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Subsequent slides/manoeuvres after the first UD are only allowed to avoid a new obstacle. As rough/difficult terrain are not obstacles for most units, they would have to enter if they have the appropriate movement allowance remaining. Would this be the correct interpretation?

If however they had already moved their maximum allowance in that terrain then it effectively becomes impassable and therefore it is reasonable to slide/wheel to avoid this? This is how I have interpreted it until now. Happy to be educated.
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Dickstick
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MessagePosté le: Dim Aoû 29, 2021 11:02 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
marco baroni a écrit:
Subsequent slides/manoeuvres after the first UD are only allowed to avoid a new obstacle. As rough/difficult terrain are not obstacles for most units, they would have to enter if they have the appropriate movement allowance remaining. Would this be the correct interpretation?

If however they had already moved their maximum allowance in that terrain then it effectively becomes impassable and therefore it is reasonable to slide/wheel to avoid this? This is how I have interpreted it until now. Happy to be educated.


Yes to the first.
As for the second, the terrain is not impassable, it's just you ran out of movement distance at the edge. Just like normal movement.
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micheni
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
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MessagePosté le: Mer Sep 01, 2021 9:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So the question is still there and it needs a clear official answer

-Does an evading unit that after starting an unblocked evade move meets rough or difficult terrain has the choice of avoiding it by a slide up to 1 UD ;
-Does rough and difficult terrain count as obstacle in any case ;
-What happens when an evading unit meets terrain but has already moved the maximum permitted distance for that terrain type; Stops in front of it; Tries to go around someway to complete the move;

Thx in advance
Dimi
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Zoltan
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Sep 02, 2021 8:15 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
micheni a écrit:
So the question is still there and it needs a clear official answer

-Does an evading unit that after starting an unblocked evade move meets rough or difficult terrain has the choice of avoiding it by a slide up to 1 UD ;
-Does rough and difficult terrain count as obstacle in any case ;
-What happens when an evading unit meets terrain but has already moved the maximum permitted distance for that terrain type; Stops in front of it; Tries to go around someway to complete the move;

Thx in advance
Dimi


To summarise what has already been answered in this thread:

1. No, an evading unit can not slide to avoid rough or difficult terrain.

2. No, rough or difficult terrain does NOT count as an obstacle.

3. Yes, an evader that has already moved the maximum permitted distance for the rough/difficult terrain stops in front that terrain and does not enter it.
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Laurence
Gladiateur


Inscrit le: 31 Mar 2017
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MessagePosté le: Dim Mai 22, 2022 12:33 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I just have re-checked the block evade rules after a game and found this topic.
The "Evade blocked by an OBSTACLE" on page 48 includes enemy units, friendly units and impassable units, that is indeed very confusing. But as Dave has pointed out above, these are not obstacles as such, but included in a rule about obstacles.

See page 67 intro text, there is a clear definition of "obstacles", i.e. ditches, traps or pits only.


Dernière édition par Laurence le Mar Mai 24, 2022 1:25 pm; édité 1 fois
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer


Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
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Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
MessagePosté le: Lun Mai 23, 2022 4:14 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
The version 3 FAQ quite clearly states that an evading unit may choose to avoid slowing terrain the same way it can avoid impassible terrain.

For what it's worth.
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MC_Delicatessen
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mai 26, 2022 8:40 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Za Otlichiye a écrit:
The version 3 FAQ quite clearly states that an evading unit may choose to avoid slowing terrain the same way it can avoid impassible terrain.

For what it's worth.

Please head over to the v3 forum.
This was answered already in the thread with a citation from v4 p48.
Yawn.
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer


Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
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Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mai 26, 2022 7:38 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Page 48 was cited by yourself when asking the question, and by Dave Allen who ends with an elaborate emoji throwing up his hands.

I realize from an earlier exchange that you feel adamantly that this has been answered and take offense that I feel it's completely moot.

But I don't understand why you would? We can all wait till the author or DT gives us a definitive answer in a FAQ or Errata. Otherwise it just keeps coming up.
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
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Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Ven Mai 27, 2022 10:00 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Laurence a écrit:
I just have re-checked the block evade rules after a game and found this topic.
The "Evade blocked by an OBSTACLE" on page 48 includes enemy units, friendly units and impassable units, that is indeed very confusing. But as Dave has pointed out above, these are not obstacles as such, but included in a rule about obstacles.

See page 67 intro text, there is a clear definition of "obstacles", i.e. ditches, traps or pits only.


We could always just all agree that we've been told by a bloke in a stripey sweater we once met in the pub that in the French version two different words are used in these two sections of the rules (one meaning "things that are sort of fortifications but might include caltrops too", and another meaning "things that block you from going somewhere you want to go"), and that whilst we can all agree that this is clearer than the English version (where this distinction between the two concepts that share the same word in English is still there, but is achieved by context, not by word selection), it's still clear and doesn't meet the threshold for errata'ing?
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MC_Delicatessen
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MessagePosté le: Dim Mai 29, 2022 12:01 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Za Otlichiye a écrit:
Page 48 was cited by yourself when asking the question, and by Dave Allen who ends with an elaborate emoji throwing up his hands.

I realize from an earlier exchange that you feel adamantly that this has been answered and take offense that I feel it's completely moot.

But I don't understand why you would? We can all wait till the author or DT gives us a definitive answer in a FAQ or Errata. Otherwise it just keeps coming up.

Yawn
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
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MessagePosté le: Dim Mai 29, 2022 5:32 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
As the occasional officially sanctioned apostle. You can take in this instance the answers Zoltan gave you as the correct reading of the rules.

Zoltan a écrit:
micheni a écrit:
So the question is still there and it needs a clear official answer

-Does an evading unit that after starting an unblocked evade move meets rough or difficult terrain has the choice of avoiding it by a slide up to 1 UD ;
-Does rough and difficult terrain count as obstacle in any case ;
-What happens when an evading unit meets terrain but has already moved the maximum permitted distance for that terrain type; Stops in front of it; Tries to go around someway to complete the move;

Thx in advance
Dimi


To summarise what has already been answered in this thread:

1. No, an evading unit can not slide to avoid rough or difficult terrain.

2. No, rough or difficult terrain does NOT count as an obstacle.

3. Yes, an evader that has already moved the maximum permitted distance for the rough/difficult terrain stops in front that terrain and does not enter it.
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