Art De La Guerre

[Mark G Fry]

I suspect that this might be one of those - sequence of play things, but in a situation where a friendly (non-LF) unit routes through another friendly unit which has a general fighting with that unit this turn, does the general dice for the unit receiving a routed through casualty?

There are other factors to be taken into account, so it assumes that the general has not already had to dice for a similar risk that same turn.
It also assumes that the general is an intergral general, or that if he is an independant general, that he has been fighting in melee, with the routed through general, that turn.

Although, there might be another question around whether an independant general, fighting this turn with the unit he has attached himself to, but which has destroyed the unit it was fighting against, before the rout-through happens, still has to test for rout-through (if that is the case). As technically the routed through unit is no longer in combat and neither is the independant general.

If all that makes sense?
Thanks
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

[KevinD]

I think he takes the test. If he is in melee and takes a hit for any reason he must test.

If the general routed his opponent then he is no longer in melee and need not test. (I think.)

[Ramses II]

Agreed Kevin. 
A unit with an attached (or integral) commander may sustain one or more hits. Irrespective of the number of hits, you dice once to see what happens to him at the end of the turn.  (P28)

• If the unit to which the commander is engaged in combat loses cohesion for any reason, the opposing player rolls 1D6 and on a 1 the commander is eliminated
• If the unit to which the commander is engaged in combat is Routed, the commander is eliminated on a result of 1, 2 or 3.
• An engaged commander is only tested once per player’s sequence even if the unit he/she is included in, or attached to, loses more than one cohesion point. This test is made after all combats have been resolved, in the Rout and Pursuit phase.

The key criteria is whether the commander is attached to the unit when it suffers a hit. So an independent commander that ceases to be attached to a unit which has routed its opponent, does not test if the unit subsequently suffers a hit. 

[Mark G Fry]

Thanks guys

So ... it is a timing or sequencing thing, as I suspected.

A). If the friendly routing unit, routes through the unit with its attached (not included) general, and that unit is not in combat at the end of the game turn (other than by being in simple support), does the general still test? The unit has still received a routed through disorder/casualty but it is not actually in combat.

B). In a case where the routed through unit (with its attached/integrated general) is still in active front-edge combat and it hasn't received a casualty from the unit it is actually fighting, then the routed through unit receives a casualty and the general must be dices for (regardless of whether he is attached or integral)?

C). If the routed through unit (with an attached general) destroys its opponent in combat, but it is routed through, surely as all actions take place simultaneously, the rout through occurred when the routed through unit was still in combat (or ... is it all dependent upon the fact that the test for the general occurs at the end of the move?)

D). Further complexity (sorry about this ... but it was a very complex melee). In this instance there was also a follow-up/pursuit involved.
So ... the unit that destroyed the 1st opposing unit, that then routed through its own friend behind it (the one with the included/integral general) then pursued into the flank of that unit. So there was a disorder/casualty for the rout-through and then another disorder caused by the 2nd opposing unit being hit in the flank whilst fighting to its front. Were we correct in the fact that the unit that was routed through received a disorder (casualty) from the rout-through plus an additional a casualty/disorder from being hit in the flank (as the two actions were different, and so the provision that a unit hit in the flank &/or rear more than once in the same game turn is exempt from multiple casualties/disorders - whereas a unit that is routed into by friends multiple times will receive multiple disorders/casualties; and neither cancels out the other)?

Again apologies if this all sounds a bit obtuse but it was a swirling and complex HF v Pike melee.
Thanks
Mark
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

[Hazelbark]

To be clear you say routed through. You mean the p68 zone of routed units.

1) A general not in melee is not tested to be loss because the unit takes a cohesion.
2) A general of any type, engaged in combat is at risk if the unit he is with, takes a cohesion loss for any reason.
p28 4th bullet, the test is made after all other combats have been resolved.

Note FAQ
Only commander fighting with the main unit of a melee counts as Engaged in combat for CP purposes, combat bonus and risk of elimination. Commander with a unit in melee support is not Engaged in combat.


A-C Yes

D: A cohesion loss from a rout through is indeed distinct from a cohesion loss from fighting in multiple directions as a result of a pursuit. You are characterizing but not citing the specific rule of p61 last bullet under multiple attacks. Your characterization is not perfect. You only suffer the multiple attack loss once per turn. You may lose cohesion for other resaons in addition.