Art De La Guerre

kevinj

There appears to be a change from V3 in the way that the initiative for an army including a Strategist is calculated. In V4 the Strategist has a command value of 3, so is this the value that should be used when calculating initiative. e.g. If I have a Strategist, 1 Competent and 1 Ordinary commander, is my base initiative (3+1+0)/2 = 2. +1 for the Strategist?

If this is correct the Spreadsheets in the Aids section need to be updated to reflect this.

Dickstick · Post� le: Ven Ao� 13, 2021 12:39 pm Sujet du message:

Compare v3 pages 21,22,66 with
V4 pages 24,25,73.
Strategist is still a brilliant commander plus strategists extras.
Only the commander quality table p24(v3 p21) has an extra line. This is contradictory to the following text p24 & 25.

My conclusion would be to delete this extra line in the table.

Otherwise strategist is three points of your army list command points. So no more Vercingetorix for list 89 Gallic? And pretty much all late Roman opponents strategists.
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

vexillia · Post� le: Ven Ao� 13, 2021 1:19 pm Sujet du message:

MC_Delicatessen · Auxiliaire Inscrit le: 30 Juil 2020 Messages: 87

My take is that there is no change from V3.

The "Commander quality" table is confusing and and serves no purpose. Is there such a thing as commander quality in ADLG? It's mentioned again on p73 but why command quality? Makes no sense. It should be either command value, cost, initiative or CP.

Commander quality is not defined anywhere. Basically that section on p24 is a dog's dinner.
Command value hasn't changed since v3, it's still 2 for a strategist.

Strategist = brilliant = costs 2 command value in army list building
Strategist = +3 in CP calculation
Strategist = brilliant = 2 command value in initiative calculation and +1 to the die roll (to a max of +4)

I don't see any change, just a badly labelled table Smile

Longtooth · Post� le: Sam Ao� 14, 2021 6:00 am Sujet du message:

For what it is worth, that is my view as well.

Jesse

kevinj · Post� le: Dim Ao� 15, 2021 8:52 am Sujet du message:

My initial view was also that it hadn't changed, but the prescence of a new line for Commander value and removal of the specific example that exists in V3 made me question that when it was raised.

For clarity, my only query is regarding the value of a strategist when calculating initiative. The points regarding list building and CPs are clearly defined in the rules.

kevinj · Post� le: Mar Nov 09, 2021 11:26 am Sujet du message:

I've not seen an official resolution to this and it's now become relevant for an army list I'm checking for Warfare.

I'd be grateful if someone could clarify this.

Snowhitsky · Post� le: Mar Nov 09, 2021 6:28 pm Sujet du message:

I am confused by your confusion! See p73.

As an example, an army with a Strategist, a brilliant and a competent general and 2LH

P73, bp1: total value of commanders/2 rounded down: 2(Strat) + 2 (brilliant) +1 (competent)/2= 2.5 rounded down to 2

(p25 second para defines a Strategist as a brilliant commander)

P73, bp2: +1 because C-in-C is a strategist. Total of 2+1=3

Pu73, bp3: +1 for 2 LH for a grand total of 3+1= 4 army initiative

So to answer your question a Strategist always adds 2 initiative to the army.

KevinD · Post� le: Mar Nov 09, 2021 6:46 pm Sujet du message:

Ramses II · Post� le: Mar Nov 09, 2021 10:53 pm Sujet du message:

Yup, the table on P24 is incorrect - the Strategist is +2 points.
I will pass this on.

kevinj · Post� le: Mer Nov 10, 2021 10:10 am Sujet du message:

Thank you Ramses, the table is what raised the question.

Ramses II · Post� le: Jeu Nov 11, 2021 5:10 pm Sujet du message:

And the Official reply is that El Kreator sees things slightly differently :-

The table on P24 is correct for the Strategist command value used when determining the command points available to his corps during the game.
P25 shows the correct calculations used when determining the army initiative at the start of the game - ie he counts as a brilliant commander, but then adds +1.

Also that this ‘initiative value’ is also used when building the army, so an army with a command value of +4 may have two Brilliant commanders, one of which may be a Strategist.

Basically it is all there in the text folks (as Snowhitsky pointed out).
Smile

ethan · Signifer Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 347

Dickstick · Post� le: Jeu Nov 11, 2021 9:38 pm Sujet du message:

El Kreator would have a point if p24 was talking about command points for a corp. But it isn't, in the English edition, it's all about Army command values.

The tables third line should read
Brilliant/strategist +2
And the forth line removed.

This then also makes p25 read with some sense.

In Anglo-Saxon it ballcocks to say +3 on one page is the same as +2 on the next page.

An unnecessary confusion difficult to defend.
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo