Art De La Guerre
Bienvenue sur le forum de discussion de la règle de jeu l'Art De La Guerre
 
FAQFAQ RechercherRechercher Liste des MembresListe des Membres Groupes d'utilisateursGroupes d'utilisateurs S'enregistrerS'enregistrer
ProfilProfil Se connecter pour vérifier ses messages privésSe connecter pour vérifier ses messages privés ConnexionConnexion
Do MC get an extra +1 for attacking LMI in the first round
Page 2 sur 3 Aller à la page Précédente  1, 2, 3  Suivante
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet
 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
Auteur Message
AntiokosIII
Barbare


Inscrit le: 01 Aoû 2016
Messages: 23
Localisation: Salinas, California, USA
MessagePosté le: Mar Déc 20, 2016 6:54 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I do not see how you can read that rule, disagree with Ethan, and still claim to be speaking English. It is quite clear. For once.
_________________
Tabletop miniatures are the only completely honorable form of warfare ever invented.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Dickstick
Légat


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 682
Localisation: West Bromwich
MessagePosté le: Mar Déc 20, 2016 9:57 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Priceless from an American
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Janos Hunyadi
Auxiliaire


Inscrit le: 21 Oct 2016
Messages: 81
MessagePosté le: Mar Déc 20, 2016 11:19 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I can see why you might read it that way. If you just read it literally in the context of the Unit Characteristics Table, it seems very specific about "MI".

I guess if they were specific in the first line LI,LMI,MI and Levies,
they could have been specific in the last line, and referred to MI and LMI.
That is the part that raises a little doubt.

I guess it would be "reasonable" to "assume" it applied to LMI as well.

It seems CV get the plus in rough/difficult terrain too.

When is LMI not MI ? when it evades (Javelinmen) or shoots.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Zoltan
Centurion


Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 445
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
MessagePosté le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 6:27 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So where did this end up?

First round
Medium cavalry (without Impact bonus) get +1 against Medium Infantry but DO NOT get +1 against Light Medium Infantry.

Subsequent rounds
Medium Cavalry get +1 against both Medium Infantry and Light Medium Infantry.


This doesn't seem to me to be a translation error but rather a deliberate distinction by the author on the basis that the MI present a more dense target to the MC charging in. Or put another way, the LMI is a more dispersed target on impact.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
daveallen
Tribun


Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
MessagePosté le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 6:50 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Zoltan a écrit:
So where did this end up?

First round
Medium cavalry (without Impact bonus) get +1 against Medium Infantry but DO NOT get +1 against Light Medium Infantry.

Subsequent rounds
Medium Cavalry get +1 against both Medium Infantry and Light Medium Infantry.


This doesn't seem to me to be a translation error but rather a deliberate distinction by the author on the basis that the MI present a more dense target to the MC charging in. Or put another way, the LMI is a more dispersed target on impact.

Let's not get into this again. If you re-read the thread it's quite clear that [non-Impact] Cavalry are +2 -v- MI & LMI in round one and +1 in subsequent rounds.

Whether or not this problem is the result of a mis-translation or simply a difference in the way English and French are parsed I'm not qualified to say, but the fact that the question keeps cropping up suggests it needs clarifying in the FAQ.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
lionelrus
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009
Messages: 4725
Localisation: paris
MessagePosté le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 11:07 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
The bonus applies again LMI and MI as El Kréator himself said. The debat has been in france 3 years ago and the answer written in french FAQ.
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
ethan
Signifer


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
MessagePosté le: Mar Jan 03, 2017 12:24 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
daveallen a écrit:

Whether or not this problem is the result of a mis-translation or simply a difference in the way English and French are parsed I'm not qualified to say, but the fact that the question keeps cropping up suggests it needs clarifying in the FAQ.


It already is in the FAQ on page 1.

"Medium spearmen
Q : When receiving a charge from a mounted, does a medium spearmen unit get the impact ability ?
A :If the mounted is not Impact, then yes. If the mounted is also impact, then the medium spearmen
Impact bonus is cancelled, as p 17.
Note : Only Heavy spearmen and pikemen keep their Impact against Impact mounted.
Examples :
A medium spearmen is charged by a Cv:
 Medium spearmen = 1 + 1 Impact = +2
 Cv = 1 + 1 bonus vs MI = +2
A medium spearmen is charged by an Impact Cv:
 Medium spearmen = 1 + 0 (no Impact) =+1
 Impact Cv = 1 + 0 (Impact cancelled by spearmen) =+1
Q : Does Longbows count as “bows†for the purposes of shooting at mounted ?
A : Yes, longbows have +1 for shooting versus mounted and reduce the target protection.
+1 bonus from mounted against MI and LMI
Q : If an impact Cv charges medium spearmen, it will lose the Impact. But does she then get the +1 bonus vs Mi
and LMi ?
A : No. This bonus doesn’t apply if the Cv already has Impact."
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Dickstick
Légat


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 682
Localisation: West Bromwich
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 9:20 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
The question is in but the answers not.
Last question in two questions
Answer only relates to first.

No were does it say LMI are same as MI.
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1476
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 1:05 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Dickstick a écrit:
The question is in but the answers not.
Last question in two questions
Answer only relates to first.

No were does it say LMI are same as MI.


"Q : If an impact Cv charges medium spearmen, it will lose the Impact. But does she then get the +1 bonus vs Mi and LMi ? "

That's probably as clear as you will get until the next iteration of the FAQ
_________________
www.madaxeman.com
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
Dickstick
Légat


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 682
Localisation: West Bromwich
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 2:05 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Yes for that one impact factor.
My question is where does it say LMI are MI all the time.
Because why have LMI if people claim they are just MI.
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
footslogger
Vétéran


Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015
Messages: 166
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 3:18 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Dickstick a écrit:
Yes for that one impact factor.
My question is where does it say LMI are MI all the time.
Because why have LMI if people claim they are just MI.


Can you give an example where it matters?
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Dickstick
Légat


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 682
Localisation: West Bromwich
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 5:26 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
[quote="madaxeman"][quote="Dickstick"]The question is in but the answers not.
Last question in two questions
Answer only relates to first.

No were does it say LMI are same as MI.[/quote]

"Q : If an impact Cv charges medium spearmen, it will lose the Impact. But does she then get [b]the +1 bonus vs Mi and LMi [/b]? "

That's probably as clear as you will get until the next iteration of the FAQ[/quote]

So the only answer is NO then the bonus is not v MI And LMI just v MI as written in rule book?
So no change.
If one fails to answer both question separately you may not get the result one wishes.
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Dickstick
Légat


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 682
Localisation: West Bromwich
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 5:45 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
[quote="footslogger"][quote="Dickstick"]Yes for that one impact factor.
My question is where does it say LMI are MI all the time.
Because why have LMI if people claim they are just MI.[/quote]

Can you give an example where it matters?[/quote]

It matters because any blanket cover all statement creates confusion and game delaying discussion

Both LMI and MI have to be listed together in ( from playsheet)
Destroying LI in open
Cavalry melee factors
Shooting ranges for bows
Expand/contract rates
Shooting resolution with bow v mounted.
Melee modifiers, foot in rough

If they are both the same why do this double listing?
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
footslogger
Vétéran


Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015
Messages: 166
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 6:25 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Let me rephrase. Can you give an example where there is still ambiguity?
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Janos Hunyadi
Auxiliaire


Inscrit le: 21 Oct 2016
Messages: 81
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 9:01 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
slightly off on a tangent, this +1 against MF, does it apply in rough or difficult terrain too ?.

I know the Impact is negated, but the +1 versus MF, does this apply in any terrain ?
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
  
 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
Page 2 sur 3 Aller à la page Précédente  1, 2, 3  Suivante
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet Toutes les heures sont au format GMT

 
Sauter vers:  
Vous ne pouvez pas poster de nouveaux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas éditer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas supprimer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas voter dans les sondages de ce forum